Unlawful Car Parking Charges
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Many thanks, and now on to the topic…
Tickets demanding the payment for breach of contract in a private car park are deceptive. If they were issued by a private company (not the Council), then no additional statutory powers are afforded to them. In this case, they fall under Common and Contract Law. The law is actually surprisingly simple: contracts can be written but they don’t have to be. When you enter a private car park there is normally a large sign at the entrance. This is giving you notice of the terms and conditions attached to the car park. By driving into the car park you are accepting these terms of contract. You are now contractually obliged to fulfill the contract.
In the event you do not perform, for example, if you stay longer than allowed, the car parking company will try to impose a penalty on you. Basically saying, pay X amount for breach of contract. However, it has been found (in previous court cases) that penalty clauses in contracts are unlawful at Common Law and any such clauses appearing in a contract are illegal and void. The rest of the contract is still binding. Courts determine whether a liquidated damages clause is a penalty clause by assessing whether the clause was a genuine attempt at estimating potential loss.
Suppose, you park in a car park and the terms are: £1 for 1 hour. If you then stay 2 hours and the parking company attempt to charge you £40, or however much this will be deemed a penalty clause since this amount is disproportionate to their actual loss. Actual loss in this case would be just £1 (you stayed two hours so you should have paid £2 in total).
Additionally, the contract is formed between the parking company and the driver of the vehicle, between a person and company (actually they are both corporations but that’s another subject entirely). Parking companies often back their wild claims with ‘photographic evidence’, showing pictures of your car proving that you breached the contract. Having obtained your regestration number, they acquire your personal details from the DVLA who are more than happy to hand out these private details to all and sundry for £2.50 a pop.
This is when the registered keeper of the car gets a letter through the post demanding payment. The combination of a very formal looking letter, coupled with threats of bailiffs, court action, photographic evidence, and a reduced fine if paid quickly result in most people paying up. The truth is, the photographic evidence demonstrates nothing more than a car being in the car park, it has nothing to do with the registered keeper, and the vehicle never entered in to any contract. The only entity that was contractually bound was the driver of the vehicle at that time. It is up to the car parking company to prove who was driving the vehicle so they can prove who agreed to the contract. Unless they have a photo that clearly identifies the driver of the vehicle they have no evidence.
When I initially started fighting these companies back I carefully posted each letter by recorded delivery. The second time I went for second class. Now I won’t even bother replying to their letters/demands for a couple of reasons:
- They must prove that I was the driver at the time and that I made a contract with them.
- Even if they did take me to court I would have their claim dismissed as a penalty charge.
- They know they won’t win a court case so they will never take me to court as this would risk a landmark ruling against them.
- The registered keeper has no additional obligations towards car parking companies.
- It costs me money to send these replies.
Last, but not least, let us not forget the Bill of Rights 1689. Section 2.12 specifically states “That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegal and void.”.
Now some real life examples… Here is a letter I received from Parking Eye, you can click on it to see a larger version:
I ignored it and later got a letter from CCS Collect, a debt collection agency. Strangely enough in exactly the same building as Parking Eye. The only difference is in the name. It seems they are one and the same company, just changing their name to sound more scarey. The following was the letter from CCS:
No problem, let’s write a reply to them…
Without prejudice, all rights reserved.
Dear Sirs
Re. Your letter dated xxxx Reference xxxx
I acknowledge receipt of your captioned letter. It seems that you have acquired my details from the DVLA and I confirm I am the keeper of the vehicle in question. You need to take this matter up with the driver concerned.
In the meantime, I absolutely deny your claim, that the amount claimed, or any amount at all, is due to you from me.
Yours faithfully
<type your name out and don’t sign>
The important things here are to keep it simple, and just deny their claim. Don’t write anything unneccessary unless you are very careful not to accidentally confirm their claim. Never do something like try to plead or bargain by saying “it was only 5 minutes over” as you are basically admitting you breached the contract, you are now just arguing by how much you breached it. Also don’t lie, absolutely don’t lie.
I got a reply from Parking Eye here:
Somehow they think that because I am the registered keeper of the vehicle they are entitled to harass me. Wrong! My reply:
Without prejudice, all rights reserved.
Dear Sirs
Re. Your later dated xxxxx – Reference: PCN xxxxxxxxxxx
I refer to previous correspondence.
I note that you refer to me as the owner. I have acknowledged only that I am the keeper.
You appear to claim that I, as the keeper, am legally responsible for this alleged charge. I deny this. Please substantiate this claim with appropriate citations of case and/or statute law.
Unless you provide evidence to substantiate your claim against me I shall be unable to assist you further in this matter and I restate my denial of this claim.
Yours faithfully
MY SURNAME <don’t sign>
That’s the last I ever heard about this alleged debt. Don’t expect a reply from them saying “sorry, we were mistaken, and we can’t lawfully collect, we just bully people and hope they pay.” you will never get any letter admitting anything from them because it would jeopardise the future of all car parking companies. The same reason why they won’t go to court – if (almost certainly) they lost a court case their entire business model would collapse.
More recently, I received correspondence from Parking Eye, this time alleging that I owe them for yet another contractual breach. Here is the letter they sent me:
This time my reply was a little more adventurous. I wanted to demonstrate my understanding of contract law, and hoped to elicit a response from them. Naturally, my hope was misplaced, they only sent out standard letters. This is what I wrote:
Without prejudice, all rights reserved.
Dear Sirs
Re. Your letter dated xxxxx – Reference: Parking charge notice xxxxxx
I acknowledge that I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. You need to take this matter up with the driver concerned.
Remedy for breach of contract can be stipulated as liquidated damages, so long as they are not a penalty clause. Why do the costs you claimed to have suffered reduce from £70 to £40 if repaid quickly? This demonstrates that the money claimed is not even a genuine attempt to assess loss, therefore it is a penalty clause and is null and void. Please refer to the case Ford Motor Co v Armstrong (1915).
Unless you provide evidence to substantiate your claim against me, and demonstrate how your liquidated damages clause is not in fact a penalty clause, I shall be unable to assist you further in this matter and restate my denial of this claim.
SURNAME <don’t sign>
Soon after I received another letter from them, this time it includes photos of the vehicle I keep. It shows the vehicle entering and leaving the car park with the number plate zoomed in. See it here:
They threaten me with ‘other action’ if I don’t pay soon, and also entice me in to paying by offering a huge reduction if I pay quickly. The back of the letter says I will lose more money, my belongings, have court injuctions against me, and have bailiffs visit and have debt collectors call if I don’t pay promptly. Did I mention the Bill of Rights 1689? I didn’t mention this in my reply letter because it came to my attention afterwards. This is what I did write:
Without prejudice, all rights reserved.
Re. Your letter dated xxxxx – Reference: xxxxx
I refer to previous correspondence.
I note that you refer to me as the owner/keeper/hirer. I have acknowledged only that I am the keeper.
You appear to claim that I, as the keeper, am legally responsible for this alleged debt/charge. I deny this. Please substantiate your claim with appropriate citations of case and/or statute law.
Please also note that I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.
I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing your pursuit of the alleged debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.
Furthermore, ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts are disputed, and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical and/or psychological harassment.
I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above, unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt or charge in question.
SURNAME <don’t sign>
I have heard nothing more about these. I must give credit to the kind and helpful people that can be found at the The Consumer Forums from whom I gained information, ideas, and material on which I based my letters. This was supplemented by my own knowledge of contract law.
Why did I add “Without prejudice, all rights reserved” to the top of my letters? If you are not careful you can give up your rights without even realising. This way you are explicity stating on paper that you are keeping all your rights. “Without prejudice” is defined in the Oxford Dictionary of Law 2006 as “A phrase used to enable parties to negotiate settlement of a claim without implying any admission of liability. Letters and communication headed ‘without prejudice’ cannot be adduced as evidence in any court action without the consent of both parties…”.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
I have not paid a parking fine, but have since received a letter from a debt collector what should I do now?
Thanks
Jane
August 28th, 2009 at 8:38 am
Hi Jane
Don’t worry, this is standard practice to try and harass you in to paying. Firstly, if any contract was ever made, then it was between you and the parking company – debt collectors have nothing to do with it and you cannot have liability with them. Simply reply to the debt collectors as I did with CCS Collect, which contains the paragraph:
Unless you have somehow admitted to being liable (by saying sorry etc) then you have nothing to worry about. If you have admitted then I would contest it on the grounds that the charge is a penalty clause which is null and void in contract law. By the way – I am not a lawyer, so this isn’t legal advice, you should check the facts for yourself, this is just what I would do. I am now simply ignoring parking fine letters, when I recognise them I write on the envelope “Not for contract – return to sender” and pop them back in the mail.
September 7th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Thanks for posting this. I find it an interesting story. I may use parts of your last letter in a case that I am currently facing, where the owner of a car alleges that my dogs scratched his car door and where – despite the absence of any proof whatsoever – he is pursuing me through a lawfirm here in Switzerland. The lesson is – as you have also demonstrated – not to be impressed by official looking threats that most of the time turn out to be hollow.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Received parking charge notice from Parking Eye, my partner is a blue badge holder, called them direct and they wanted proof that we were shopping, but we had not bought anything, and they still say that we broke the law. When asked do they go shopping and come away with nothing they dismissed the question? Where do we stand?
November 13th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
First of all, it is not a good idea to contact them. In your case you have admitted you parked there, but are just arguing the case. In the future, you don’t even need to bother phoning them. Even though you have admitted to parking the car and entering in to this contractual agreement Parking Eye still have no right to charge a penalty, simply because penalties in contract law are null and void. By breaching their contract you have NOT broken the law or done ANYTHING illegal, you breached a contract, which is a civil matter, not criminal. They are just bullying you, but if you have read my article you will have an understanding of your rights, and you will know that you don’t even need to call them. In my experience writing a letter arguing the case will just result in one of their standard replies. If I were you I would forget all about it. Naturally, I’m not a lawyer so this isn’t legal advice, it’s just what I would do and what I think…
November 14th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
I have been issued with a PCN whilst in a council car park for exceeding my time limit by 17 minutes. I put £3 in the meter although only £2 registered. (The charge per hour is £1.30). Would I be able to argue that the £50 charge is excessive and does not represent liquidating damages?
November 15th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Hi Tony
A ticket issued by the council is not a ticket issued by a private company, and is not covered by contract law. Council parking notices are backed by statute law, I think it might be the Traffic Management Act but I really don’t know for sure. I would refuse to pay and point them to the Bill of Rights 1688 which makes threats/promises of fines or forfeitures of particular persons before convition illegal and void. It was a long time ago but this is a very important piece of primary legislation and forms part of the British consititution. It has never been repealled, so overrides all future secondary legislation. This is the statue on the governement website about halfway down the page are pertinent parts. Naturally, I’m not a lawyer so this isn’t legal advice, it’s just what I would do and what I think…
January 15th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Hi, Firstly thanks for posting this information. I have just recieved a pcn from parking eye so I shall ignore it and await further letters. I know there is a lot of advice online about how to deal with these pesky things but some of them are quite heavy reading.
Thanks.
January 30th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Have received a PCN from ParkingEye after going over their limit time of 2 hours by 15 mins.
This was on a Ings Rd.retail park in Wakefield four days before Christmas. The first letter I ignored but unfortunately the second scared me a bit and I decided to put in an appleal. All the 2hrs 15 mins was as genuine customers of both Sainsburies and Homebase, I have receipts with departure times to prove this and did state this in my letter of appeal. I am the registered owner of the car but was not driving it at the time although I was a passenger. Does this mean that as the owner but not the driver I have not entered into a contract with ParkingEye? The other confussing aspect is that there are two different companies managing parking on this site ParkingEye only allow you two hours the other company two and a half. It was always my intention to allow this to run its course and appear in court if necessary. Don’t really want to pay a hefty fine but also feel that I have a legitamate case. Your comments would be appreciated.
February 2nd, 2010 at 10:38 am
Please read my inital post in detail. All the answers are in there. Specifically:
- The registered owner did not neccessarily form a contract with the company – you were the passenger so you didn’t.
- By making an appeal you have admitted to the “offence” and assumed responsibility that wasn’t yours in the first place, since you were the passenger.
- Do not panic, this will never go to court – it will be thrown out if it did – penalty charges are illegal and void.
- Contact the store you bought goods from and explain the situation, more often than not they will making the parking company forget about it.
- Don’t worry about it so much, this is only a civil issue for breach of contract. It has nothing to do with the Police or criminal proceedings. It is only a strongly worded letter from a big bully company, I really can’t understand why people flap when they get such a letter, but that is exactly what the parking company wants you to do.
- If you want to play by their rules then offer to pay them for the time that you overstayed. E.g. if parking was £1 per hour and you overstayed by 2.5 hours then offer them £2.50 in compensation. If parking was free, then they lost nothing, so cannot chase you for anything.
February 5th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
my wife recieved a parking notice from parking eye stating the vehicle reg & make & model for overstaying @ B&Q warrington SORRY but this vehicle has never been to warrington which is 68ml away either they have read it wrong or theres a ringer of my wifes car out there
February 9th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
Hi This forum is great . My story with this company is the same as yours . Only i did reply to the initial demand from them appealing & stating that i had broken down (even though i had shopped at the shop in question reciept inc) and needed to return home to a get a chipped key to restart my engine immobliser.
I have now recieved a second letter stating that my appeal was unsuccessful & that i have to right to further appeal but need more evidence etc. Any advice or should i just ignore them ?
Regards
Andrew
March 18th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
I’m also dealing with Parking Eye fines for overstaying at Morrisions car park. Following the advice on The Consumer Forums, which is to ignore, I’ve made no contact with them whats so ever. I’m on third letter, this time from CCS collections. Should I continue to ignore or is it time to reply, with your template letter? Its good to know none of the cases gone to courts
March 25th, 2010 at 2:24 am
Dear All – spent most of this evening/early morning (24.03.10) searching websites for advice on dealing with Penalty Charge Notices issued by private parking companies (I have paid for a staff permit but been fined for unknowingly parked in restricted area, despite having parked there for the last 12 mths and thought all okay, totally unaware and never been told otherwise – in fact evidence to the contrary as have an email from Head of Security Feb 2009 stating this area is okay for staff to park in and I’ve not seen communication since to say staff now not able to park in this particular area.) so totally stressed. Like post above, I submitted appeal online but it was ‘unsuccessful’ so I will now challenge the £50 (£25 if paid in 14 days) as this is not a genuine attempt at estimating potential loss so does not represent liquidating damages ( which I’m not so sure what this amount could be anyway as I had a permit and vehicle was parked in a bay so not obstructing or causing nuisance to anyone else); Whilst the ‘fine’ may not be as much as some refer to on these forums; I am more shocked at the lack of communication re: recent decision of someone to segregate parking zones, when it is common practise in education to send such communication to staff via email, rather than changing the signage overnight without due warning. Any other advice?
March 29th, 2010 at 9:08 am
Guys guys guys – What are you doing?? Why the hell are any of you appealing against these parking tickets – especially using the parking companies own appeals system?
Do you expect justice? If so, why? The appeal is run by that company for that company, they are interested in profit only SO OF COURSE YOU WILL LOSE. Another thing, why on Earth do you submit an appeal to them? “Submit” means to bend to the will of another, so you are submitting yourself to their jurisdiction, their authority, and their policies. Additionally, if you respond to them apologising, appealing, or otherwise, it means you “understand” their claims against you – to “understand” means to “stand under”, which again, means you accept their will, policies, and remedies.
You gotta be one sandwich short of a picnic if you think they will look kindly unpon your case and change their minds.
March 31st, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Hi, just wondering whether a balliff can actually come round without a court Order first? Just referring a ‘debt’ to a balliff isn’t lawful in itself, surely?
I’m thinking along the lines that a third party debt Order or a Charging Order or something along those lines of Enforcement has to be achieved first?
A good piece of easy to read info above, many thanks for taking the time to set this up.
Mark.
March 31st, 2010 at 4:26 pm
Of course a bailiff can come around at any time. However, abailiff can only do so much as you let them. Without a court order they cannot gain forced entry in to your home, they can only come in if you invite them or they can gain access without forcing anything – e.g. you leave a window open which they climb through.
I doubt you would ever have bailiffs visiting for not paying a private car parking ticket. Debt collection agencies and bailiffs have no business – any contract which could have ever been created was between the car parking company and the driver of the vehicle, nobody else. Lawful remedy for breach of contract in this country is to make a small claim civil court case NOT harass and bully people by way of bailiffs or debt collection agencies.
Bailiffs operating for non-payment of council tax similarly have no business bullying you, though with court orders your position is somewhat weakened.
April 1st, 2010 at 10:50 am
Thanks Gabe
In the same position at the moment but had an feeling these INVOICES had no legal claim on them.
Very glad i found your blog before i replied to them.
April 2nd, 2010 at 11:09 am
Hi, I have the problem with Parking Eye at the moment, I have found this forum and used one of the letters published here. Post it and got the reply which is:
Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the outstanding Parking Charge incurred on 05/03/2010 at 17.55, at the Aldi car park in Bathgate.
We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been unsuccessful at this time, and further evidence is required if you wish us to consider your appeal further.
You have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and time of the breach of the terms and conditions of the car park, however you have failed to inform us who was, so the outstanding Parking Charge remains your responsibility.
Judge Ackroyd, 2008, Oldham Court, Combined Parking Solutions versus Mr Stephen Thomas, in the case where Mr Thomas claimed not to be the driver, but did not state who was, ruled that on the balance of probability he was the driver and ordered the Charge to be paid plus additional court costs. Therefore your options are either:
• Pay the outstanding Parking Charge, or
• Inform us who was the driver so that we can pass the responsibility of the Parking
Charge onto them
If you choose to provide further evidence relating to your appeal within the next 7 days, we will place the outstanding charge on hold for a further 14 days whilst we consider your appeal further.
Otherwise please call our offices on 0845 456 6708 to arrange payment of this Parking Charge.
What do you think I should do now ?
Many thanks
Adam
April 3rd, 2010 at 5:14 pm
I think you should read the above information. All that you seek is contained therein. Seems like you made the mistake of putting in an appeal which was not surprisingly rejected and also stating you were not the driver (was that a lie? I hope not).
April 8th, 2010 at 11:31 am
Love the site I received a pcn from parking eye a few weeks ago I ‘apparently’ overstayed in an ALDI carpark by 15mins.I ignored the notice because I was not driving the car that day but was a passenger.I have received another letter with photos of my car. My initial feeling was to ignore this letter as well but I wonder if I should reply. Pls advise
April 8th, 2010 at 11:51 am
Pls read above. Why should I be bothered to type everything over again just ‘cos you can’t be arsed to read a few lines of text. If you find my post useful then good, if not then sod off – I’m fed up with replying to ppls posts who just can’t be buggered to read the original text.
ANY FURTHER COMMENTS ASKING FOR ADVICE WILL NOT BE APPROVED. Grab your balls and do some reading for once. The only reason you get all flustered by these parking companies is because you have never bothered to read or find out the truth or your rights. I’ve already done the hard work for you all you have to do is read what I’ve already written – if you can’t be bothered to do that then bog off and pay the “penalty” notice of £70 or whatever.
April 9th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Gabe,
I recently received one of these parking eye letters…
I have read through your first case and one of their letters contained the statement, “as you are the registered keeper… we are entitled to assume that you were driving the vehicle on the day in question”
Is this true? Are they LEGALLY entitled to accuse you of the alleged crime and ask for payment JUST BECAUSE you are the keeper of the vehicle? If not, here is the DVLA form labelled “Request for information for those who issue a parking charge notice”
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:iID2ENjG-ZEJ:www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/%40dg/%40en/%40motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_065259.pdf+responsible+for+parking+charge+notice%3F&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjrc4r2kCFzyobOy_46Yc-a7nCgZiVhdY4BHW3fv8g6lFQNUc-xuu8v3iT4NQyohhOzQisO2uP0fhn6k0SVHmvItYXWsK77x2w8aKR99fhyWR4NKJ1yBA7GN_1s2HXA9lZ_OYL8&sig=AHIEtbRjBnoDE4V7GvzJqwjPxcfjetcSGQ
In section A of this form it says:
We have a duty under the Data Protection Act 1998
to protect personal information.
However, Regulation 27 of the Road Vehicles
(Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002,
provides for the release of information where a person shows reasonable cause to want it.
If I write to the DVLA saying something on the lines of:
“Do you agree that PE can obtain my details from you to harrass me as the registered keeper for monies that I have not been proven liable to pay?”
Has this been thought of?
Perry.
April 9th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
P.S I am following your advice from origional post, I was just wondering if I could bat some blame at them? lol
April 10th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
Gabe,thank you very much for all the trouble you have taken and friendly advice on this site-much appreciated.
joe
April 15th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Gabe, thanks everso for all the info. I was actually on the phone to these arseholes whilst reading your posts. I put the phone down and will resist paying as you suggest. so glad i googled you! x
April 26th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Gabe,
What if I sent a letter claiming not to be the driver, but I actually was. There seems to be warnings against lying, but what are the consequences?
April 26th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
I don’t condone lying, I write about people’s rights and how people might go about claiming them. If the case went to court and you were found to have lied then suffice to say that would not be cool.
April 27th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Hi Gabe
Thanks for the advice. I too have been charged by these robbers for parking in an open car park which no barrier or readable sign as it was dark. It was an open area and connected to the main highway.
I knew the car park was free during the day (2hrs) but hadnt expected it to be open in the evening and was going to park in the lead in.
When i received the letter i thought id have to pay up.. but won’t now.
They wanted £80 but reduce to £50 if paid inside 14 days. IF not paid inside 14 days the full amount is due and ‘any ‘further delay’ will result in an administrative charge being added to bring the total to £110 plus liability to further charge.
These fees convince me that its basically a threat and a carrot in the hope someone will be frightened enough to pay. Sadly someone uninformed WILL pay and thats a shame.
I’d like to know this-
1 Could it be possible to ‘charge’ them a cost for replying – say £70 for legal advice/secretarial & postage and state that you want proof that you are liable (as in your letter) giving them 14 days to reply and that failure to reply PROVING you are liable or sending further demands without proof would add an administration charge of £30 plus liability to further charge if they send further harassing letters.
They surely wont have a standard letter for this?
April 28th, 2010 at 8:41 am
Fair point.
Great blog by the way.
Many thanks!
April 28th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Bob.
They conjure up some random charge and some incentives for you to pay. It is not illegal and you will only pay if you agree to those terms. If you have an ounce of common sense you will stop and question why you must pay (there is no law to say you must). At that point you realise you only have to pay them if you agree to their terms and their penalty – why would you or should you agree?
In the same way you are more than welcome to introduce your own terms in to the proceedings. There is no doubt you can reply, notifying them that any further correspondance will be charged at £100 per letter, and if they fail to explicitly acknowledge this they are silently aquiescing to such terms.
In the end they can agree or not agree to your terms. You can make it as complicated as you like, ultimately, if you feel you shouldn’t pay the parking charge then simply don’t.
Never ever expect anything other than a standard letter as a response, no matter what your letter says. They will continue banging out the same tune and ignore any attempt you might make to subvert their extortion. By all means go ahead and send them a letter and post here the response you get!
April 29th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Gabe, you are a modern day genius. From now on, I will put a little note in my side window: “any private correspondence sent to the keeper of this vehicle will be charged at £50 per letter”
(I will make it so you can hardly read it – like the ticketing cowboys do)
Thank you so much for your vote of confidence and for opening our eyes to the scandal!
April 30th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Hi, Re my Q and your reply at 16 & 17.
I was of course using the terminology ‘balliff’ when I should have used the terminology ‘debt collector’.
So,my Q again should read: “…just wondering whether a ‘debt collector’ can actually come round without a court Order first?”
The answer of course is yes they can come round, but not have any ‘powers’ as such, except vocal persuasion.
I further wrote, “I’m thinking along the lines that a third party debt Order or a Charging Order or something along those lines of Enforcement has to be achieved first?” which is a correct statement if using the proper definition of ‘balliff’, which of course is Court appointed to pursue the debt as per the (court) Order.
Hopefully i’ve cleared this up myself, thanks again gabe.
May 7th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Hi Gabe,
I am also one of the latest victim of this problem. I wished I’d read this b4 as I have emailed them to ask for photographic evidence when receiving their 1st letter deminading £80 (£50 is paid in 14-days)
This is what I have written
“I have just received a letter/parking charge notice (with above details) from your company (with the ParkingEye logo on it). When I tried to pay through your company website via internet method using the reference number given (refer to above), the system didn’t recognise the reference number at all. After several attempts, I decided to write-in to check the validation of the letter.” They replied with the ‘scary colored photographic evidence’ but without showing my face.
Question-1:
My concern is I have wirtten “When I tried to pay through your company website”, does this mean that I have already admitted that I am the driver in any way?. or I am wrong? (I never admitted I am the driver or did I said I accept this is my wrong-doing).
The reason I checked about ParkingEye on internet is to find out who they are (since never heard about them b4) and I tried typing in the Reference number in their website, but it wasn’t recognised at all. That’s why I questioned whether this is a hoax case or not as the letter has very limited info. (until I read this).
Now, I am very concerned when I received the fine as I am a regular to that Dartford retail places. I thought I might recevied more than just one letter/notice-charge later…
I think the machine onsite changed protocol/signage several times too. At first, it allow user to punch in Reg. number for 1st 2hr free-parking and dispence the ticket on the spot. However, just recently, the machine eliminated that function and no such free ticket was given any longer. Many people tried but nothing came out and never bother too much assuming that it was free afterall. I tried paying several times in the first place but it doesn’t allow it as it is free for 1st 2hrs. Most of us never bother after 2hrs and carry on shopping there.
Question 2:
Since I didn’t pay any parking fees in the first place, am I in breach of the contract law? (even if I decided to defend the case using your suggestion of letters above)?
Question 3:
What’s the worst that can happen if we did get a court case? what’s the maximum payment if we did lost the case? (maybe you have some idea).
Question 4:
Anyone bring this up to Watchdog yet?. What did they say?
Lastly, thatnks ever so much for helping/reading this. My apology for the ‘long-page’.
BYW, this is ParkingEye’s reply.
Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to an outstanding Parking Charge incurred on 17/04/2010 at 17:13, at Prospect Place car park, Prospect Way, Dartford, Kent. We can confirm that these references are correct.
There are two telephone payment lines – 0845 456 6708 and 0844 873 5678. You can speak to a Customer Service Advisor by holding on this line. Alternatively, you can pay on-line at http://www.ccscollect.co.uk.
We attach photographic evidence as requested.
Vehicles are photographed entering and exiting the car park through our cameras, and should the total time of the vehicle within the car park:
a) Exceed the permitted parking period
b) If a Pay and Display car park – insufficient time was paid for
c) You are not an authorised permit holder for the area
.. then the Parking Charge, as stated on the signage, becomes payable. The timings of the cameras are monitored and synchronized with the Atomic Clock at Rugby.
Please advise ASAP if possible. Many many thanks again.
Vincent
May 10th, 2010 at 8:56 am
Hi Vincet
This was on watchdog just recently. The guy on there demonstrated what people should do with these letters by folding it up in to a paper aeroplane and launching it across the studio. I suggest you do the same. In the worst case scenario if you lost a court case you would have to pay damages (since the parking was free in this case then that would be £0) + court costs.
I’d say just ignore them. Otherwise write them a letter demanding they identify you as the individual responsible for entering in to a contract with them.
May 17th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Hi Gabe,
I’ve read your initial post but your recommended replies may not be suitable in my case so I wonder if you could help.
The usual parking notice arrived stating that I enetered the car park 20/04/10 at 1745hrs and did not leave until 0740hrs on 21/04/10. In reality what happened is I was parked for only 10-15 minutes on 20/04/10 then left; then returned on the morning of 21/04/10 again for no more than 10 or 15mins. Also the car I was driving was a hire car so I’m neither the owner or registered keeper. The hire company has charged me £35.00 for sending the calim on to me. I am concerned that further correspondance will mean further charges from the hire company.
I considered ringing them to tell them the situation but on reading the posts I don’t think that is the best way forward.
Can you give some advise, please.
Thanks
May 21st, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Hi Gabe… Just received one of these letters for parking in McDonalds in Pontypool! Was just going to pay up, but think I will just follow the advice on here and see what happens.
This McDonalds is on a roundabout, way out of town and is actually a service area. (checked this on Google maps) Seems kind of counter productive for a business to agree to a company making punative charges to it’s customers!
I am certainly not going to pay this charge and I will, if OK use the material you have posted. I will also post about how I get on…
May 21st, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Hi Pete
Good luck with that! Although I’m certain you won’t need any luck. Please feel free to use any material from this site, and we look forward to your feedback.
May 21st, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Hi Gabe
I received one of these letters for parking in the car park at Argos in Bathgate. I was a bit worried at first, but after reading your advice I will ignore the letter
Thank You
May 24th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
Hi Gabe
I have recently receive a PCN from Parking Eye and was about to appeal as i had a receipt from the store with a time of 4 mins before being clocked out. I was going to appeal, but having read your comments I’ve realised that there is no point in appealing. I would like your advice as to whether I would be better sending your template replies or just ignoring their letters. What does worry me is that I work in a Building Society and we have to be cleaner than clean with regards to our personal finances. If it was passed to a debt collection agency would this show on my credit reference or would my employers find out about it?
May 25th, 2010 at 8:48 am
Hi Sue
I think that, in this case, you should do what you think best.
I used to work in a bank and understand how picky they are with regards their employees. To be honest I don’t see any way in which a parking fine would escalate to giving you a bad credit rating since you never borrowed anything. A debt collection agency is nothing special, infact as I said somewhere above CCS Collect and Parking Eye share the very same offices.
I wish you well, and I am certain no matter what path you choose – it will lead you to a small but important victory over these blood suckers.
May 25th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Hi Gabe
Thanks for your quick response and I have decided I’m going to ignore the PCN and take a chance. If the worst comes to the worst I will be the landmark ruling. You stood up to them and have now given everyone else the chance to do the same by sharing your experience, many thanks for that. If this goes beyond the threatening letters I will update this site.
May 26th, 2010 at 11:15 am
I admire your strength, courage and determination. I am glad I could help to put things in to perspective for you and you now have a realistic alternative to paying up. I’m sure nothing bad will come of it and I hope your success will inspire others to question why they *must* pay a single penny and start to assert their rights.
May 27th, 2010 at 11:34 pm
Hi, I was just wondering if this applied to company insured and owned vehicles because i know the law can sometimes change when companies are involved?
Many Thanks
Joe
May 28th, 2010 at 9:09 am
Hi Joe. The law doesn’t change for companies. The driver is still the one who would accept a contract and therefore liability. If the driver is driving as part of his employment then something called viacrious liability may come in to play – that is the employee’s company is held vicariously liable for liability incurred by the employee. In the case of a simple and illegal parking fine I see little relevance.
May 30th, 2010 at 12:44 am
Hi, I originally posted at No: 16.
I, being the registered keeper, received the standard parking eye first letter pcn, then the photograph one entering and leaving, then one from ccs, which was 31 days ago now, nothing since. Seems like they are giving up earlier in the game now.
I didn’t respond to any of the letters in any shape or form.
Mark.
May 30th, 2010 at 11:16 pm
Great thread – i’ve just had a parking eye letter claiming an overstay at my local B & Q store. It’s my third ‘offence’ and I will do the same as the other two – totally ignore them all. Don’t correspond, dont ask them for photographic proof or get flustered by their posturing or threats in any way. They have a well rehearsed regime of letter sending, as has been said on this thread. If you are not admitting to being the driver, they cannot demand any payment from you or presume you were the driver, even on the balance of probability rule. Dont give them a name to work with. They certainly won’t take you to court for sure! And they can’t, if they havent got a name confirmed for their phoney contracts scam! The worst they can do is to log your registration number and claim a justifyable clamping for unpaid fines, if you ever found yourself on private property that they ‘police’. Bottom line is dont reply or enter into any correspondence with them – they do go away – eventually . . . just hold your nerve!!
May 31st, 2010 at 3:21 am
I’m an ex-employee of CCSCollect, I just thought I would clarify a bit. CCSCollect are a sub-contracted by Parking Eye to send the letters and take any calls/payments. Although they are debt collectors don’t be fooled by them they will only ever send three letters and never take you to court, after three letters they just forget the offence.
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Well, this is inspiring stuff – especially the first and last post.
Was thinking of doing nothing (such an easy option) and am now determined to do exactly that.
Mine was Acton Morrison’s BTW
June 7th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
I received the fine from parking eye, and after researching the matter I sent to them a letter telling them that unless they stopped pestering me with ridiculous claims, I would take them to court. I never heard from them again.
June 11th, 2010 at 12:24 am
I agree with the poster who says ignore everything and reply to absolutely nothing! I’ve done exactly that and I am a veteran of these parking eye tickets (latest count is 8!) . .There’s not a court in the land would grant bailiffs or debt collectors rights of access to property for their scams! These companies are playing on fear and intimidation. If you have replied and they continue to send out demands to you regardless, just visit your local police station and claim that they are pursuing a course of conduct likely to cause you harassment alarm or distress, and then watch them back off!
June 24th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Thank you for the information that you have made available. I do however have one question which you may be able to help me with. I recently received a Parking Charge Notice from Parking Eye, and to avoid any hassle I sent a cheque for £40 (before researching the company on the internet). However, the day after sending the cheque, and after reading numerous posts on the internet, I became sceptical and decided to cancel the cheque. I am now awaiting a second letter from Parking Eye (as many people have received), but am worried about the signs I have shown to Parking Eye by sending the cheque in the first place. Any advice Gabe? Thanks.
June 25th, 2010 at 10:35 am
i parked in sheffield at hillsborough behind the back of farm foods and returned within the 2hrs. However i sat waithing for my disabled anuty for 20 min and did not leave the car park until 10 min after cahnging my boys nappy and letting him have an cold drink as it was avery hot day. Should i just pay the £5o charge before it goes any higher .
June 25th, 2010 at 11:08 am
Linda: well done on cancelling the cheque. My advice would be to stop worrying and get on with your life. Just ignore these bullies.
Sam: Do the same. Just ignore them, the problem should go away. Of course you can do anything you like including paying, but I hope you too can join us in a stand against this daylight robbery.
June 25th, 2010 at 11:35 am
hi gabe thanks for your advise. I am getting really worried as i dont want them to take me to court in the end. Shall i reply to them? Do they take photographs of you. I am always aware o f parking tickets and genreally park my car in town and walk with the kids. I feel very angry with these people could you advise me please on what templates i should use to reply or should i ignore them.
June 25th, 2010 at 11:36 am
hI gabe again! if i was not driving the car that day does that mean un less i have not reported it stolen i will get charged for the fine thanks
June 25th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Hi, we received a parking fine saying we’d overstayed at a pay and display. It is free for 2 hours, then after that you pay for a ticket. After 2 hours we went and bought a ticket for 4 hours. We stayed for just under the 4 hours. On receiving this fine we have realised it wasn’t 4 hours from buying our ticket but we had to go back in time and include the free 2 we’d already stayed for…?? Not very ‘free’ then! Anyone know what happens here as we are quite distressed that we paid a fiver for 4 hours and now have a ridiculously expensive fine.
June 25th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
had a pcn from parking eyeand subsequent pcn with photos of my car, the meter swallowed my money and never gave me a ticket, rang parking eye from car park and was assured i would not get a pcn, obv i did, i wrote to them with phone bill as proof that i contacted them about it but they just keep sending me letters saying appeal unsuccessful. really not sure what to do next, regards Sally
June 26th, 2010 at 6:10 am
Sam, Steph, Sally – you all need to read through my original post. I explain everything in great detail and provide template letters and even show what letters they have sent me. All of your situations are exactly the same and differ only in small details and therefore should be handled in the same way. All the info you need is to be found above.
June 28th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
Hi
Just got back from 2 weeks away in Spain to find 2 letters from parking eye, including the one with two poor quality photos of the car at B&Q in Neath. I’ve read lots of advice and in particular on this site, I still haven’t seen anything from anyone who has failed by choosing to ignore the parasites at Parking Eye. As I understand it they could clamp my car if it were on one of their sites in the future, but can they really ? If so, then in despite of all the money I’ve spent at B&Q over the last year or so (its well over £1500) they wouldn’t get a penny more ever again from me!
June 28th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Quite right, my advice now is to just ignore them. They can’t clamp you unless they have big signs up saying they will clamp you, stating the release fee, contact number for release, and that any clamping is performed by Security Idustry Authority (SIA) accredited personnel. Anything else is illegal under the Private Security Industry Act 2001.
June 30th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
After some research I have also come to a firm conclusion that it is not even worth the stamp responding. It is however worth reporting them to the British Parking Association, aos@britishparking.co.uk, for failing to adhere to their code of practice which allows them access to DVLA (for a fee):
1. Issuing forms which look like a penalty charge, see B10.5
2. Failure to provide details of the procedures for complaints to the Information Commissioner, DVLA and appeals procedure, see B9.6
June 30th, 2010 at 11:01 pm
Hi i have been sent a car parking charge and i am also the registered keeper a was not driving the vehicle at the time. I sent a similar 1st letter to Parking eye stating that i am not liable. they reponded with:
Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the outstanding Parking Charge incurred on 27/05/2010 at 16:53, at the Aldi car park in St Mary’s Gate, Sheffield.
We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been unsuccessful at this time, and further evidence is required if you wish us to consider your appeal further.
You have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and time of the breach of the terms and conditions of the car park, however you have failed to inform us who was, so the outstanding parking charge remains your responsibility.
Judge Ackroyd, 2008, Oldham Court, Combined Parking Solutions versus Mr Stephen Thomas, in the case where Mr Thomas claimed not to be the driver, but did not state who was, ruled that on the balance of probability he was the driver and ordered the Charge to be paid plus additional court costs. Therefore your options are either:
· Pay the outstanding Parking Charge, or
· Inform us who was the driver so that we can pass the responsibility of the Parking Charge onto them
If you choose to provide further evidence relating to your appeal within the next 7 days, we will place the outstanding charge on hold for a further 14 days whilst we consider your appeal further.
Otherwise please call our offices on 0845 264 1189 to arrange payment of this Parking Charge.
What would i do?
July 1st, 2010 at 10:51 pm
Just got a Parking Eye one from a B&Q overstay. Didn’t see a single sign warning of limits (not that I was looking, so maybe they are there). I can’t see without some active acceptance of their BS rules (ie getting even a free ticket from a machine to acknowledge them) I entered into a contract. As far as I’m concerned I may have entered an unwritten contract with B&Q to use their free car park in return for buying their stuff, but that’s it. Anyway I’m ignoring their rubbish and i’ll let you know what happens. I am bolstered by having free legal advice from my union and don’t need to worry too much about costs, but I find it offensive that particularly the worst off people may be bullied into parting wish cash they can ill afford to remove the threat of potentially really high charges. They’re like Gripper off Grange Hill, except they’re not having my dinner money.
July 2nd, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Hi Gabe
Just want to say a big thank you, I have read all that you have written, A good job I looked on here before paying Parking Eye! I am now going to rip up the letter and not give it a second thought.
July 2nd, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Hi Gabe, I received a letter today from Parking Eye stating that on 15th June I was the registered keeper of the vehicle and they have evidence of it entering at 9.15am and leaving at 12.44 meaning I went over the 3 hours. They are asking for £80 but say I will get a reduction if I pay promptly. I have read all these posts but dont want the fee to increase by leaving it longer. Also unfortunately I think i slightly went over twice since this time (I was on training courses that overran) so am worried I will be hit by 2 more bills so eventually I will be pursued to pay at least one. I would be really grateful for you advice. Thanks.
July 3rd, 2010 at 4:08 am
Paul – I’m loving your research – nice one on that, useful just in case anyone else wants extra “ammunition”.
Sha – Ignore them.
Well done to you, Sty.
Tracey, thanks, I’m glad it could help you.
Sami – rip it up and don’t give it another thought, as I’ve said time and again. If you don’t feel this repsonse it comprehensive enough then please sit yourself down with a nice cup of brew and read from the top. If you can grasp the basic ideas of contract law you’ll understand why the £80 is sheer lunacy and only made more ridiculous by the fact they are more than willing to halve it if you cough up sooner.
Good luck to all of you. I can feel the momentum building in this country as more and more people stop to question why they have to pay yet another fine or tax. The time is nearing when everyone will realise they don’t actually need to pay, they will unite and ultimately get rid of these parking companies. These parking companies feed on people’s ignorance and apathy (just like the governement).
July 6th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
hi guys,
i hv received same fine letter from Parking eye with £50 for going over time limit,I am going to ignore these letters but could u tell me if all this situation going to leave some Bad mark on my ”Credit Rating”?
thanks and regards
July 7th, 2010 at 1:22 am
It won’t affect your credit rating, main reason being that they didn’t give you credit facilities.
July 14th, 2010 at 11:25 am
Gabe,
Just received 1st CCS letter after getting 2 from parking Eye (one whilst I was in Spain for two weeks, so I couldn’t have responded anyway).
I’ve taken your advice and completely ignored the letters, which I fully intend to carry on doing, I feel quite confident about the outcome because of what you and exCCScollect employee (may 31st) have said, and I look forward to ignoring the next two.
Is it true that you can send a letter to debt collectors, removing your implied consent to enter your property or set foot on your land?
July 14th, 2010 at 11:51 am
Well done, and yes it is true. You can also tell the debt collectors to stop harassing you else you will have them for harassment. I think I demonstrated such use in one of my example letters to be found above. It basically tells them to stop harassing you and either bugger off or take you to court. Harassing people for breach of contract is not a recognised remedy, court action is. They ain’t gonna take you to court because their case is too fragile, so they’ll have to leave you alone. If they continue to bother you report them to the police. This doesn’t just go for parking tickets but in any situation you get chased by debt collectors.
Please keep in mind one other thing. Any contract that you did enter in to and break was between you and the parking company. No other company or entity has any right to chase you or demand money from you. You never ever broke or created a contract with debt collectors so why are they chasing you? They’re like a pack of hungry hyenas preying on the weak.
July 16th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
update – 1 more “PCN”, then a “final notice” still not replying. I take it if they do pursue a county court action against me (which I am well up for by the way – armed and armoured as I am with a C grade A level in Law from nightschool) I take it they will file it in Preston, which will mean a trip but I guess I can claim costs against them when I inevitibly win. (I look forward to my bailiffs looting their crappy offices) I also took photos of their joke signage as a precaution, but my main defence will be the punitive damages angle. Do they think they’re in the States?
July 18th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Hi.
I parked in a carpark unaware of the rules (maybe I just didn’t look for them). When I returned to my car there was a PCN from PARKING EYE stuck on the windscreen for parking outside of the parking bay lines. I assume this would have been photographed and there will be some sort of demand for payment by mail. Where do I stand please?
July 19th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Hi Bazza
You stand exactly where I, and all the people above you stand. Please have a read through.
July 19th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
My wife received one of these notices in February this year. After finding and reading Gabe’s site we did as he recommends NOTHING!!! We ignored everything they sent to us. It was good to know in advance everything they were going to send to us.
It has now been a quite a few months since we heard anything so it would seem to have worked.
Many thanks Gabe.
July 20th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Gabe,
First of all I think you ought to leave a donation box for all the marvelous advice you have given everybody who has sought your advice.
I copied your first letter to see what would happen and have received one since saying I will have my house taken off me by a bailiff and then will be thrown into the Tower by a High Court Judge from a man called John Mitchell from their legal department. How they like to scare everyone. I probably shan’t bother answering it but am quite keen to now copy your last reply referring to knowledge of fair trading etc.
I’d like to send you a large glass of something by way of thanks for all the info you have posted here.
July 20th, 2010 at 11:01 pm
I have now got a final notice. I am taking no notice of their letters but I am saving them. My wife is getting pannicky but having come this far I am going to see it through. As a pensioner I cant afford their charges and why should I pay up if their invoices are not enforceable. I lost my car key and had to return home for the spare. If their appeals always result in rejection, I see no point in appealing. I also dont want to allow them to think I am weakening, so they persue me longer. I just hope the letters stop comming.
July 21st, 2010 at 9:07 am
Hi Waylon
My wife was the same. I received a Council Parking Fine and was establishing loop holes to use and such like so that I could write a post on this site about council parking charges. However, for the sake of not worrying my wife and causing unnessicary stress I just coughed up. However, with companies like parking eye even she feels “who the hell are they?”. In the end you gotta balance these things up yourself and as you say – you have come so far it would be a shame to just “give in”.
July 21st, 2010 at 12:55 pm
I have a different issue in that my car is registered to my company so they are getting the warnings and charges from parking eye.
I wrote the first letter on company letter head in the manner advised but they’ve now sent a further letter with pictures of entering and leaving.
My boss says he’ll take it out of my wages if he gets another letter. He believes I should pay just like when it’s a council ticket.
I could do with my next letter to them being my last one and them not hassling my company.
Any advice on tactics gratefully received.
July 24th, 2010 at 10:51 am
Hi Gabe
I had to park in Aldi Derby car park due to the hospital car park opposite being full and a long queue on the day in question when i was collecting my elderly mother after a major operation. Unfortunately for me despite mum being ready to leave before I arrived, the hospital did not discharge her for nearly 3 hours. I did not see any notices in the car park (though that’s not to say there weren’t any) and naturally my concern was for my mum – I had only expected to be half an hour max (although it turned out to be 2 and a half hours before I moved to the hospital car park). I am not from the area (I live in Lincs). After 2 weeks looking after my mum I returned home to find a pcn from Parking Eye. Unfortunately I only had a day or so to appeal and did so before looking online. Now I feel I have made the biggest mistake! I note from all your posts that I should ignore any future letters. I contacted Derby City Council Consumer Direct/Trading Standards who advised that if there were notices then I should pay, although they did suggest phoning the ‘national car park adjuciation office’ if I was not happy. I feel why should I pay for what is essentially a ‘free’ car park (no notices at the entrance to the car park that I know of) and it does not just serve Aldi as there is a restaurant using the same car park. According to Parking Eye the permitted parking time is 90 minutes – hardly time to order and eat a 3 course meal if one was dining, I would have thought. Advice please – I know you will say ignore them, but I am worried about doing so, especially after the Oldham case. Consumer Direct advised waiting for PE’s reply to my ‘appeal’, which I have not yet got, but if all the posts on here are anything to go by, PE will turn it down anyway. (Fair enough I wasn’t a customer of Aldi or the restaurant on the day in question but had been to Aldi the day before, and as the nearest one to where I live is around 25 miles away, I make the most of the opportunity when there is one). The car park was not full and there were plenty of spaces both on arrival and departure. This Aldi is not based near a town or shopping complex (although I accept that the proximity of the hospital is a factor). Please advise. Many thanks.
July 26th, 2010 at 9:03 am
beekeeper, I would indeed advise you to ignore them.
If, however, this does not sit well with you then you must do what you feel is “right” for you. If you don’t feel ignoring them is the right way to go and you don’t think paying up is the right way to go then you will need to find the middle ground. This advise goes for everyone, don’t follow my instructions like sheep, you must do what you feel is right in this life. If that means fighting these ridiculous car parking charges then so be it, if you think the right thing for you is pay up then please do it. The only thing worse than a bad bank balance following you around is a feeling of regret, so don’t do something you’re gonna regret.
July 27th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Cheers Gabe –Thanks for spending the time dealing with this scam.Have just returned from holiday to find 3 letters from ParkingEye awaiting me.
I will completely ignore any further correspondence from these rogues.
YouTube footage of Watchdog programme was also useful.
Again many thanks for this thread.—-Brian
July 28th, 2010 at 7:34 am
Could I clarify that b these private parking demands are not “fines”, they are invoices. To call them fines gives them a legitimacy they don’t deserve.
July 28th, 2010 at 11:38 am
Hi Gabe,
Rather than go through usual PCN letter I received yesterday from P’eye, suffice would be to say that the major difference in my letter was – permitted period 0 hours 0 minutes. Parked (Cresta Court Hotel Altrincham) car park – Disability bay (badge showing) for period????.
Two quick questions:
1. Am I correct in assuming that your standard advice still applies here?
2. Would it be best using your response letter procedure as advised right at the beginning of these posts, and follow this procedure to a conclusion? OR – just ignore the letter(s)?
July 28th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Hi Alan
1. Their demands for money are ridiculous anyway. The permitted time of zero makes it all the more so. Standard advice applies here.
2. Just ignore them, it’s the path of least effort, time, and cost for you and I see no reason why you should use any of those three resources in to replying to such absolute tripe.
July 28th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Hi Gabe,
Thanks for your prompt response to my queries!
Just as a rider here – our party actually spent the period stated on this form, actually in the Licensed Residents and Guests lounge at the Hotel – spending almost £100 in the process. We also took many pic’s which could go some way to prove that we were there using their facilities at cost, although, rather unfortunately we never retained any receipts (who does) because we never anticipated any problems – let alone an illegal parking demand notice.
Thanks again
Alan
July 28th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
You got nothing to worry about and nothing to prove. They are the ones that need to prove who was driving the vehicle and accepted a contract with them. If they did this you would also ask them to prove their penalty is not a penalty but an accurate assesment of loss resulting from the parking of the car that breeched their terms.
July 28th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Hi Gabe,
Interesting site and research you have done.
A few points I would make for some of your followers:
1st, People are getting confused between bailiffs and debt collectors.
A bailiff will only become involved if the matter went to court, you lost, then refused to pay the judgement, then the claimant applied for enforcement.
A debt collector is someone with absolutely no powers whatsoever, they cannot enter your property, they cannot take goods they cannot affect your credit record. They have no more authority than a complete stranger in the street, if by some miracle they did call at your home just tell them to ‘go away’, if they refuse call the cops.They usually just confine themselves to writing letters anyway, some even in scary red ink.
Another point someone made, you cannot be clamped for an outstanding PRIVATE parking ticket, so you should have no fear returning to the original car park.
If you want to hurt the scammers back, then just ignore them and their ridiculous threatening letters, that hurts them the most, as they get no reponse they dont even know if their letters are getting through to someone, give them nothing to go on.
July 28th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Hi! Interesting blog post, thanks!
I have just received a penalty notice from a pub car park who have a pay and display of £1.00, which is refunded when paying for a meal in the pub. Therefore, the purpose of the parking charge is clearly to stop people using the pub car park for general parking without using the pub itself. However, as a single mum to a toddler, I didn’t see the pay and display signs (and wasn’t looking for them because I assumed the car park was private and free) because I was concentrating on my daughter not being run over on the way to the pub entrance. Within 10 mins, I realised my mistake (and after reading a sign at the bar saying “have you paid and displayed?”) and so dashed to the car to put a ticket on the window. I paid £1.00 and then claimed my money back after paying for my food. When I got home I found the penalty charge tucked behind the wiper. I phoned the pub, who have arranged a meeting with their manager for tomorrow. However, the member of staff I spoke to made a point of saying she couldn’t guarantee I would be refunded. I’d like to go to that meeting knowing more about my rights in this case. I placed my order at the bar at 13.12, the penalty notice was issued at 13.20, I paid for my ticket at 13.22.
Would love to know your thoughts! Thanks!
July 28th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Don’t give them a penny. Don’t even have a meeting with them for it only shows that you submit to their power over you. Who says you must pay for the parking ticket before ordering food or within 5 minutes of arriving at the car park? I bet that wasn’t in their terms. In any case their fine/invoice/demand/notice whatever you want to call it is to recover loss of money they suffered as a result of you parking there. The fact is in this case they have lost nothing because you have already paid the £1 and had a meal in the pub so they can go take a hike.
Really, why do people like you assume you have to even talk to these cretins? You don’t have to pay them a penny. You don’t have to waste your time going to meet them. You don’t have to prove your innocence. They act without any authority and the only authority they gain over you is what you allow them, why bother even wasting your time in responding to their ridiculous claims?
An analogy to this parking charge fiasco might be that you sit in another customer’s seat in McDonalds because they went to the toilet. They then come back and demand to have their seat back or a payment of £20. I mean, really, what would you think/do? Pull out your wallet, apologise and hand over £20 or tell him to f*** off cos you are going to sit wherever the hell you like and he doesn’t own the seats in any case.
With the car parking you parked on the pub’s land. Now you got some other company demanding you pay them because of what? You didn’t buy a ticket? You did buy a ticket. This is so stupid it makes me so angry and what’s worse is that they got you all worried over nothing. You’re not a criminal, you haven’t done anything wrong, and you don’t have to answer to these retards.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
This thread is getting a little long and it appears that lots of posters can’t be bothered to read all of the very good and often repeated advice contained therein, often asking what they should do in their particular case, when they hardly ever differs to any significant degree. As a practicing solicitor who has received two of these ridiculous cash demands, the following advice (without quoting case law and other completely obscure enforcement avoidance techniques) should be noted and adhered to for complete success:-
Do not respond – totally ignore everything you receive – hold your nerve – let them build up their own costs – beat them at their own game!
THE END!
July 30th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
Due to the extreme length of this article I am now closing it to further commenting.
I have set up a forum which is far more suited to discussions of this kind. Please post further comments, questions, queries etc at http://forum.whatastate.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2
The URL for the main forum page is simply http://forum.whatastate.org.uk/
Thank you
Gabe